I have not seen a full regulations document yet, but have heard about a few changes, some National, some section specific, that I think are interesting and IMHO, probably a good thing.
First, it appears that National is going to be calculating dynamic ratings for Mixed in 2024! This means that self-rates, appeals, and mixed-exclusive players will be subject to strikes from their Mixed play. This is big and I think will help cut down on some of the abuses of the system we see in Mixed where new players self-rate too low and dominate, but there is very little that can be done to disqualify the players that are clearly out of level.
I have not heard if this will begin with 2024 early start Mixed leagues or only for play during the 2024 rating year, but am working to find out. I assume that the rating from Adult league play will still be what goes into year-end ratings, but have not confirmed that yet either. But what do you think?
Second, in most sections, Tri-Level has counted for year-end ratings for a number of years. Southern has been a hold-out, which could again be abused in some scenarios where players could dominate in Tri-Level for several years using an artificially low year-end level from a prior year. Well, in 2024, Southern will be including Tri-Level matches in year-end ratings. Southern will also hold Sectionals for Tri-Level in 2024 which I guess they haven't in the past.
Third and last (for now), also in Southern, a change is being made to the levels for Mixed leagues. In the past, I believe every section has run Mixed leagues as "combo" leagues, e.g. 6.0, 7.0, 8.0, 9.0, and 10.0, where the players on the court cannot have a combined current level over the level of the flight. This allows for a 4.5 and 3.5 to play together on an 8.0 team for example. This gives teams a lot of flexibility, and allows friends and spouses at a variety of levels to play together, but can lead to a pretty wide disparity in ability on the court at the same time, e.g. a 4.0 male with a 3.0 female (or 4.5/3.5 or 5.0/4.0).
Well, for championship year 2024 leagues in Southern, Mixed is going to be straight-level leagues, e.g. 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 4.5, 5.0, meaning it will be like normal Adult leagues where just 3.5s and 4.0s can be on a 4.0 roster for example. This will reduce the disparity of abilities on the court, but perhaps put Southern at a disadvantage come Nationals where they will have to face combo-level teams.
There are some side-effects of this of course and I assume they were all considered as some might be perceived as or actual negatives for a number of players.
A simple one is that this restricts the ability for some friends/family/spouses to play together on a team. A husband and wife that are a 4.0 and 3.0 could play 7.0 before, and now can't play on a Mixed team together.
A more significant side-effect is on participation though. Where a player could have played on three different Mixed teams at different levels before (e.g. a 4.0 could play 7.0, 8.0, and 9.0), the same player can now play on only two teams (4.0 and 4.5) and will be at a disadvantage one one of them. This has the potential to reduce participation 33%. Now, one might argue that there are players that avoid Mixed because of the ability disparity issue and they'll come back and make up the difference, but we'll have to watch and see.
It is worth noting that parts (or perhaps all) of Southern has done 55 & Over leagues as straight-level so this is just making their Mixed leagues consistent with that. That has worked for them, and Southern has done well at Nationals in this division, so it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
What do you think?
It has been talked about that Mixed Leagues would go to a 7.5, 8.5, 9.5 so that husband/wives could play. Generally couples are within .5 of each other and some sections play tournaments this way already.
ReplyDeleteI've often advocated that Mixed be combo on the 0.5 with the max gap being 0.5. It keeps some of the flexibility of the current approach but addresses some of the negatives of it.
DeleteMy understanding is if they are only .5 difference between partners that they can still play together and just have to play the higher level (e.g. 3.5 and 4.0 will just play together in 4.0).
DeleteYep, that is true, they are just playing at a disadvantage in this scenario.
DeleteI believe Caribbean does’t count tri level either
ReplyDeleteWow, Southern has a lot of different rules.
ReplyDeleteSo, you think that C players(and likely appeal computer-rated players) won't have mixed matches count for ratings still? I don't think mixed should count for ratings in a perfect world, but maybe it should count some because of sandbag players, but not as much as adult leagues match.
Tri-level matches should definitely count for the whole country. Sections shouldn't be able to decide for those as they're team leagues. And the matches at Nationals count for ratings if those Southern players that make it there. If Southern doesn't have Tri-level Sectionals, how do they decide who goes to Tri-level Nationals?
That's too bad for those Southern players for mixed. Definitely a disadvantage at Nationals, though their section is so huge, they'll still have good teams at Nationals. Participation will certainly decrease, and lots of players will be limited what they can play.
Do you know if socal trilevel men's counts towards ratings?
ReplyDeleteSocial anything will not count toward ratings, only USTA leagues and sanctioned tournaments can count.
DeleteAssuming you are asking about NTRP rating specifically. Social league COULD count for UTR (but probably not).
DeleteDifferent sections count different leagues for ratings. Many include Tri-Level (and Southern will too in the future), and most include secondary leagues (singles only or doubles only leagues that don't advance).
DeleteFWIW, a voting member of USTA North Carolina (subsection of Southern) is telling folks they voted YES to adopting the Southern rule change for mixed because they were told National would be making the change.
ReplyDeleteInteresting. Did they know they were doing it earlier than National was adopting it?
DeleteI like it as I believe that playing in a USTA match, no matter which league, ought to count. Not just for 'strikes' but also for ratings. I also fully support at-level Mixed. Having a 2-level difference is too high in my opinion. Play your level, or play up 1 level if you want, it promotes better competition all the way around.
ReplyDeleteI can see it both ways. Mixed is definitely a different dynamic than just straight men's or women's leagues. I don't see a problem with the differences for levels though. Though making it 6.5, 7.5, 8.5, etc might be better for advancing leagues. If they make it all the same level, it'll promote much less participation and it make harder to be competitive. Not as much of a problem to be competitive in larger areas, but it'll hurt the smaller areas even more, which are already had a big disadvantage to begin with. I don't see a big problem with the current format currently set in place.
DeleteMe too. I can definitely understand the participation argument for smaller sections/areas, but 2-level difference does not seem right. Maybe once you get to the higher levels (4.5, 5.0+, etc.), perhaps folks can handle it better. As with most anything, someone's not going to like whatever happens :-).
DeleteThe 2-level difference seems to be working just fine though. In 8.0 for example, 2 strong 4.0s compete roughly the same against a strong 4.5M and strong 3.5F combo as well as against a strong 4.5F and strong 3.5M combo. It's just a matter of finding these strong players for each of these levels.
DeleteUSTA should be trying to promote playing more and make it easier to be involved in their leagues. Limiting playing opportunities is the opposite of this.
Intermountain runs a combo league at .5 increments. We play a sectionals and it ends after that. I wish it would go national as it’s a really fun league.
ReplyDeleteMy wife and I thoroughly enjoyed playing competitive mixed together over the years, however if the new rules do take effect, we will no longer be able to do that. So we are planning (with a bunch of other couples) to take our time, money and volunteering efforts elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear that. I take it you are two levels apart? e.g. 3.0 and 4.0?
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